Ep. 15: Gina Nebesar, Co-founder and Chief Product Officer, Ovia Health. Topic: Employee Well-Being During the Pandemic.
Kathy: Welcome to Episode 15 of the Smarter Healthcare Podcast. Our guest is Gina Nebesar, co-founder and chief product officer of Ovia Health, a women’s and family health technology company. Gina leads product development and marketing for Ovia, and has scaled the solutions to more than 15 million women and families globally. She is also mom of two – with one more on the way – and a women’s health ambassador with more than 50 million views of her Ovia Pregnancy video series chronicling her journey to motherhood.
In this episode, Gina and I talk about employee well-being during the pandemic, particularly as it relates to parents. Gina talks about some of the trends Ovia is seeing on its platform and how she believes businesses can support employees.
I hope you enjoy.
Kathy: Thank you, Gina, for coming to the podcast. Can you start by talking a little bit about your background and about Ovia Health?
Gina: Thank you, Kathy. It’s so great to be here. Ovia is a digital platform for women’s and family health. We’ve served over 15 million families, navigating their reproductive health, their journeys through parenthood, with clinical programs that help them really understand and gain control of their conditions and risk factors along the journey, like PCOS, high-risk pregnancies, parental depression. Women track their health and their lives with Ovia every single day and we use that data to help them understand their bodies better and achieve a better outcome, whether that outcome is getting pregnant or having a healthier pregnancy and childbirth, or sometimes just simply to understand their new identities as parents. About me, I have a background, I’m the chief of product and marketing at Ovia, I have a background in entrepreneurship and engineering. I’m also an Ovia mom of two with one on the way, and working full-time without any formal childcare in sight, so you’ll have to excuse me if my kids come running through the door or if I run out of breath at any point due to pregnancy. I think, like many working parents experiencing the chaos and exhaustion of this pandemic and today’s reality, my lines between work and self have certainly blurred, but I know my challenges are small in comparison to some of the, what other families are experiencing, and the trends that we’re seeing on our platform and impact to parental mental well-being overall.
Kathy: I can completely relate to everything you just said. So I know that you talked about PCOS, depression…what are some of the other issues that women face during pregnancy and parenthood that your company is helping to address?
Gina: We address the full spectrum of family health from the moment people are…their first interaction with their reproductive health, their first period through their sexual health, fertility, pregnancy, first…families’ first years. As an organization we have a commitment to not only prove out the efficacy of our programs and our impact on preventing adverse outcomes, but also we have a deep commitment to research, clinical research that informs not only health policy decisions, but also with the goal of elevating the standard of care for families, which is needed in this country. We’ve published over 30 peer-reviewed publications, studies, with some of the world’s leading academic institutions, taking on the most complex challenges in family health, from the national caesarean epidemic, maternal mortality, social determinants of health, and throughout the pandemic, we’ve been working with the March of Dimes to continuously publish new research on how the pandemic is impacting care delivery for parents, pediatrics, prenatal care, as well as racial disparities in family care, and of course the parent mental health crisis.
Kathy: Great. Now let’s dig in a little bit deeper on mental health. According to the Mental Health Index, U.S. worker edition, employees reported a 48% increase for risk of depression between November and December of last year. And employee focus plummeted 62% during the same time. Yet two-thirds of employees hide their mental health condition at work because of fear and stigma. Do these statistics surprise you at all?
Gina: These statistics do not surprise me. We’re now a full year into the pandemic. It’s no surprise to many that the reality of pandemic parenthood has put this immense strain on their mental, social, physical health. The pandemic has widened the gender gap in the workforce, there’s been over 2 million jobs lost to women over the course of the pandemic, and every month we keep seeing new reports of the thousands of women leaving the workforce in droves. But in addition to impacting our long-term financial security, earning power of moms, the pandemic is also playing this huge part in the family dynamic and the well-being of children. The most alarming trend we’ve seen is the rise in domestic, excuse me, intimate partner violence. Which pre-pandemic affected one in four women, and so today, in today’s environment with the strain of financial pressures, social distancing, there was a surge at the beginning of the pandemic in calls to police, domestic violence hotlines, and that impact has continued, so we’re concerned about the safety of moms, but also the long-term impact on the family. A full-year – I can’t believe it’s been a full year, Kathy – a full year in and we’re still homeschooling our kids, we’re worried about our elderly parents, all while being expected to maintain these same levels of productivity at work. And then you take that stress and amplify it by the stress that you may or may not contact the virus, so if you’re an essential worker you need to go in to work every day to support your family, that stress is obviously greater. I’m not surprised by these statistics, increasing people’s risks of stress, anxiety, depression, especially among different groups, single parents, mothers of color, parents of vulnerable populations. I was talking to somebody even last week who goes into work three times a week, she’s got a 12-year-old and an 11-year-old, she has to leave them at home alone to do their schoolwork, and she just has no other options. She’s worried about not just contracting COVID and bringing it home but also her kids’ safety, their long-term emotional security being home. Another one, which is very similar to our situation, Kathy, working home, I was talking to someone, she was working from home and she didn’t feel comfortable telling her boss how stressed she was feeling, she’s had no changes in her schedule. She’s monitoring her kids’ schoolwork, she’s taking on all the home duties, cooking, laundry, everything, and before the pandemic those lines between work and life were a little harder, she had an end to her workday, and that’s just not the case anymore. And I was telling you earlier, the trends we’re seeing on our platform. So Ovia serves millions of people every single day on this journey. We deliver the Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale digitally in Ovia with, EPDS is an instrument that is most commonly used to identify post-partum depression, and we, again, we deliver millions of those each year. We took a sample of the results, pre-pandemic and during the pandemic, and the results were just alarming. We’ve seen this increase in mild to moderate, moderate to severe depression. We also saw an adverse impact among moms ages 35 to 39 with a more dramatic increase in depression, even a 24% increase in suicidal ideation amongst that group. It’s more stark differences amongst those that are first-time moms versus second-time and third-time mothers, which I thought was surprising. And, also, the biggest impact among the BIPOC community, specifically black mothers, bigger increases in suicidal ideation since pre-pandemic times compared to white moms. So, no, it doesn’t surprise me. This pandemic is influencing every aspect of our lives. Not just our work. Our family dynamics, our access to health services, and what matters most to us, which is our health, and that of our children.
Kathy: I’ve heard so many stories, just among people in my community, like the ones that you shared about parents who have left their jobs because they need to homeschool their kids, or my kids will tell me about other kids in their class who have to take care of younger siblings while they are homeschooling because their parents are working, and it’s just been so tough, I think, on families. So what do you think the role of employers should be in all of this? What should they be doing for working families, and particularly women and women of color, as you mentioned they have been more hard-hit. What should they be doing that can address the mental health toll that it’s taken?
Gina: Employers certainly have a role to play. This is a systematic issue, it has to be addressed at the systematic level. We serve, Ovia’s offered as a covered benefit to over 2,000 employers. So we’ve been able to see what they’ve been doing for their workforces, and there are a lot of employers that are really stepping up and taking action at this time. They’re investing in behavioral health resources designed specifically for parents, they’re prioritizing virtual health support, programs like Ovia that engage them in the comfort of their homes. I think the three main things employers can do: first, is just leading with empathy. Understanding the problem, understanding what parents are going through, and then also specifically at their organization. We’ve been seeing employers encourage supervisors to communicate with their teams, their direct reports one-on-one, they talk about mental health as a company-wide concern rather than at an individual level, to really normalize it, and they’ve been doing surveys throughout the pandemic to understand what is most important to their parents at the organization – are they working from home? How many kids do they have? And by doing that they’ve been able to make these more data-driven decisions around increasing the resources. So should we invest more in behavioral health, childcare stipends? The second thing I’ve seen employers do is invest in these resources. Investing in behavioral health programs, childcare stipends, flexible work schedules, peer to peer venues for support. We’ve seen our clients for example double down on Ovia support. They’ve been inviting us in, our mental health social workers that coach the people on our platform will actually go virtually to an organization and moderate discussions, everything from vaccines when pregnant to breastfeeding to back-to-school decisions. And then in addition to putting dollars behind it I think what employers need to do is make it a commitment for the long term. These investments will send a much louder signal of support if they’re made with a long-term view. There’s just so much uncertainty. Parents need to know they can rely on their employer not just today but they need to rely on them tomorrow, next year, when there’s still no vaccine in sight for their kids, or the year after when the long-term effects of some of these shocking statistics will take place. My company, Ovia, three weeks in we came out as office-optional, indefinitely. Which was terrifying, because you value that community and that in-person, so to make that such a big commitment in the long-term…but it was worth it, knowing that it put everyone at ease, you knew you weren’t going to be pressured to come back in, and it set this long-term commitment that we’re here for you throughout the entire pandemic, not just the first couple of months. I think the same is for mental health care benefits, child care temporary stipends, parental leave policies are really great, I’m so glad to see those pop up amid the pandemic. But post-pandemic, what will your childcare benefit look like? How can you tell people around, this is a long-term commitment and the stipend – one thing COVID has taught us is that if parents don’t have childcare, you can’t work. If you can’t have trusted, reliable, affordable childcare there’s no way that you can be expected to produce at the same level as before, so I’m hoping to see some of these investments happen more on the long-term as well.
Kathy: And specifically as parents come back in to the workforce, as women decide, “OK, my kids are back in school now, I can go back to the workplace,” are there any specific resources that employers should offer at that time, when people are coming back in?
Gina: Honestly I think the biggest thing they can offer is transparency. And what are their expectations, what are their policies, what is the timeline, and then also what’s the transparency into the health of the business, to give people that sort of long-term security. We’re seeing a lot of employers gravitate towards this hybrid model. And some execs seem very eager to re-open offices and get back to this “normal life”, quote-unquote, but even with cases declining it’s difficult to determine the timing of when we’ll be able to safely return our full workforces back, but preferences have changed. Who knows what people will be asking for, how much percentage will be remote versus in-person post the pandemic. I think some people can’t wait, “Sign me up, I want to go back to the office,” while others would prefer to work remotely more often now having experienced it. I think I’m in the latter. If I had childcare, if it wasn’t my mom at home – my mom is doing a great job – but if I had a normal work-from-home environment, I’d want to be here at home a few days a week, save those commuting hours. So we’ll have to see that flexibility and that investment amongst different organizations.
Kathy: And it’s one thing to say that these are things that we should do, and another to actually put it into practice. I know you talked a little bit before about how Ovia is indefinitely either at-home or workforce optional. What other things are you doing for your employees right now?
Gina: That’s a great question. I think the support we’re offering is evolving each month. So there’s been a dedicated task force to almost every aspect of the pandemic in addition to, of course, HR and Operations taking the lead. Some examples of what we’re doing is having office-optional indefinitely, easing that burden. Enabling people to work from home. We’re very lucky in that our programs, our digital health programs, 25% of our workforce was working from home before the pandemic, so it was an easier change than others. We also have opened the office up for a certain number of people permitted each week for those that really need that outlet and want to go in a safe place where they can work. We’ve started offering support in the form of time off. So every month we have a mental health day, company-wide mental health day, you can’t schedule meetings on that day. It’s highly encouraged, no one will bother you, and that’s in addition to of course our regular holiday and vacation benefits. And we’re leaning on our existing leave policies. So people need to take advantage of short-term disability and bonding leaves. We’ve been encouraging and increasing transparency around those, maybe you weren’t in the mindset of taking those pre-pandemic, didn’t know they were available, so since then we’ve been navigating people to those policies and how they can take advantage of different leave options. What I’m so amazed by at Ovia too is just people stepping up to support each other. We’ve had – we’ve always had different groups on Slack or meeting in person, now virtually, but we’ve been trying to facilitate those venues for parents to talk to each other, for people to discuss their mental health concerns in a safe place, there’s no taboo. People feel very open to sharing their struggles, which has been important. And then again on transparency. We’ve been very transparent around that not just the state of the office, but also what’s the state of the business. So every week we hold a company-wide virtual team meeting, which is really great to hear it offers that social support and a sense of normalcy, to see the people that you don’t normally work with day-to-day, but also just to offer some transparency into the positive health of the business, which is really imperative right now for parents, that need to know they have that stability and certainty during the pandemic.
Kathy: Now let’s look ahead to the next few years. Do you foresee a time when we’re going to go back to normal, as it was before the pandemic, or are we really entering a new way of working now?
Gina: I hope it’s a new way of working. I think – I think definitely care delivery will never look the same. I’ll never – the days of episodic care delivery, where you drive to an office and sit there, wait 20 minutes for an appointment, be rushed through your care will look different. The future will look more like digital programs like Ovia. And then the workforce, I hope it becomes more flexible, or corporations really adopt these new policies and maintain them. Everything from reducing travel to enabling people to work multiple days a week from home. I’m optimistic. I know Ovia will look totally different.
Kathy: Well thank you, Gina. This was a really great interview. Thank you so much for joining me.
Gina: Thank you Kathy. I appreciate it. Thank you for taking time for such an important topic, parent mental health.
Kathy: Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Smarter Healthcare Podcast.
To learn more about Gina’s work at Ovia Health, you can follow her on Twitter @gnebesar. Follow the company on Twitter @OviaHealth.
You can also follow me on Twitter @ksucich or @smarthcpodcast. Feel free to get in touch with comments or guest suggestions.
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Thanks for listening!
